The Battle for Ohio's Fair Representation: Ending Gerrymandering with Mia Lewis

Transcript

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there wasn't a mechanism for fixing the maps that didn't just send it right back to the same people who had drawn the bad maps in the first place.

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So every time they drew a bad map it would be struck down by the court and it would go back to the commission and the commission would draw another bad map and then it would go back to the court and it just went around in circles until they ran out the clock and you know there were lawsuits and they got federal courts involved and stuff.

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So really, I mean they didn't abide by the law.

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Welcome back to the United she Stands podcast, the show that brings kindness and women into politics.

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I'm Ashley and I'm Sarah and we're two women from Ohio who are here to become more educated about American politics and build a community so we can all get involved and make an impact together.

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We hope we'll inspire and empower you along the way.

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Hello everyone and welcome back to the United she Stands podcast.

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Today we have Mia Lewis with us and she's going to talk to us about gerrymandering in Ohio and how we can contribute to the fight against it.

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Yep, you heard me that gerrymandering, gerrymandering Shout out to the OG listeners, who understand that reference.

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But anyway, mia is an associate director at Common Cause Ohio, which is a nonprofit, nonpartisan advocacy organization that works to strengthen public participation in our democracy and ensure that public officials and institutions are accountable and responsive to citizens.

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Mia joined Common Cause during the push to pass 2018's anti-gerrymandering issue one in Ohio, coordinating teams across the state to push for a yes vote.

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She comes from an organizing and educational background and is passionate about protecting our democracy and ensuring access to the ballot.

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Welcome, mia, we're so excited to have you today.

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Thank you so much I'm excited to be here.

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Awesome, yeah, mia, we're super excited to have you and we're going to jump right into it.

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So can you just tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are today?

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What sparked your interest in protecting democracy?

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Yeah, great question.

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Well, the truth is that I actually have been.

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I have been interested in democracy issues for a long time.

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I was lucky enough to spend some time I'm very old compared to you guys so when I was in high school, I spent a semester in South Africa working for an organization that was fighting apartheid so that was a long time ago and then I had an opportunity after independence, came to Zimbabwe to work in Zimbabwe, and I've spent time in other countries that were not democracies, that did not, where people did not have access to the ballot or the ability to vote, or where their democracies were kind of a little bit fake democracies.

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So it's something that I have always been concerned about and I have been, you know, politically active at, you know, in the US as well, in various ways.

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So after Trump was elected in 2016, in 2017, folks were out with clipboards collecting signatures to try to pass redistricting reform, and it was really something that a lot of people jumped into, I think, because they felt that it was a way to participate as volunteers and as citizens and as concerned citizens, to try to strengthen our democracy, because gerrymandering essentially undermines our democracy, it makes our democracy, it rigs the maps and that rigs elections and that rigs the outcomes of elections and so it fundamentally undermines our democracy of getting involved.

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And actually a nonpartisan way is to try to end gerrymandering and to make the system fairer and stronger and more responsive to the voters.

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So I think that was very appealing to a lot of people and particularly to myself, and you know I became very involved with collecting signatures and kind of things continued from there.

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That's an incredible story.

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Long answer to your question, sorry.

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No, that's perfect.

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We wanted to hear everything where it began, so thank you for sharing that, and we are also very passionate about ending gerrymandering here.

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So, like we said, we're excited to have you and talk your ear off here, but we know there are also several groups fighting to end gerrymandering in Ohio, and so we mentioned in your intro that you're a part of Common Cause Ohio, so can you just help us understand the difference between Common Cause fair districts citizens, not politicians Like are they all separate?

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How do they all kind of interact together?

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Yeah, great question.

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So Common Cause is part of a coalition, an Ohio coalition that is called Fair Districts Ohio.

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So Fair Districts Ohio is really just a kind of umbrella term for all the groups that are working together to end gerrymandering in Ohio, and those groups include Common Cause Ohio, league of Women, voters of Ohio, aclu of Ohio, the Council of Churches.

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You know many other groups.

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So we all work together and, as I am an employee of Common Cause, but truly I get up every day and I work for fair districts, I work for all the people who are involved with fair districts.

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Now, fair districts it's had that coalition that's been fighting gerrymandering in Ohio.

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It's been around for a long time.

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It's had a few different names but it's been around for a long time and there have been many, many efforts to improve, to end gerrymandering in Ohio.

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And Fair Districts has been around for all of them.

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Citizens, not Politicians is kind of the new kid on the block.

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They are the campaign that is fighting to put a particular amendment on the ballot this November and the name of that amendment is Citizens, not Politicians.

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And the name of that amendment is Citizens, not Politicians.

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So they are trying to change the Ohio Constitution to create a Citizens Redistricting Commission, collecting signatures to try to help citizens not politicians get on the ballot and win in November, so that we change the Ohio Constitution and we establish a Citizens Redistricting Commission and we take politicians completely and totally out of the redistricting process.

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So you know, but once they win once citizens, not politicians gets on the ballot, once it wins in November, they're going to go away.

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They will have succeeded.

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But fair districts will still be here and will still be monitoring.

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Is the amendment being implemented correctly?

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Is the commission working correctly?

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Do we need to make any corrections?

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Are people participating?

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Are they going to the state house to give testimony about maps and are they applying to be on the commission and all of those other things?

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This was, this is going to go on, and so fair districts will be the one that will be, you know, participating in that.

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After, after we win the big battle in November, Amazing, yeah, okay, that makes so much more sense because we've definitely seen all three of these organizations you know just kind of being in this space and I wasn't super clear on just kind of how they were different.

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So thank you so much for that.

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So we've thrown around the word gerrymandering quite a bit already.

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So for our listeners who maybe don't know, before we kind of go any further into the conversation today, could you just explain to us, you know, what is gerrymandering, why is it a problem and really how does it impact us here in Ohio?

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Yeah, great question.

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So the very simplest thing to say is that gerrymandering is cheating.

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It's a way of drawing maps of so that they benefit one particular political party over another, or a politician, an incumbent, or someone who's a candidate.

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So you know, think of it this way, like if you had a bunch of presents under a Christmas tree and instead of the parents saying, ok, this present is for you and this present is for you, if they let one of the kids basically draw a line around all the presents that they wanted and the other the presents that were outside of the line were for the other kid they could draw that line in such a way that they got all the presents that they wanted and the other kid got all the bad presents.

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And so you know, it is something that both parties do.

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It's basically, when you draw the lines, to either make sure that you're going to win a district or make sure that you pack as many of your opponents as possible into a district that you're going to lose.

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So there's, you know, the two things you do when you're doing gerrymandering is packing and cracking.

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So you can either pack your opponents into one district and put as many of them in there as possible, or you can crack them, you can take a kind of a stronghold of your opponents and you can make sure that you get a little bit of that area in one district and a little bit of that area in another district and a little bit of that area in another district and a little bit of that area in a third district, so that they those that community doesn't have the power to elect the person that they want to elect.

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And before the congressional map was changed, clintonville, which has the highest percentage of Democratic voters, you know, in this whole area I was in District 12, us Congressional District 12, and that stretched all the way out to Zanesville.

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It was a very, very deep, red, highly Republican area that was essentially a guaranteed win for whichever Republican was on the ballot.

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And they took that line and they put it all the way into Clintonville and they took out a big chunk of Clintonville, basically in order to make sure that anybody in that area that their vote wouldn't count at all, because there was no way for them to win, given that the district stretched for an hour to the east, an hour's drive to the east, and so that was just a very purposeful way of cracking our vote, taking it and diluting it in a sea of opposition.

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But then District 3, which is right near, was packed.

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They took as many Democrats as they could.

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They knew they couldn't win in central, central, central Columbus packed.

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They took as many Democrats as they could.

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They knew they couldn't win in central, central, central Columbus.

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So they took as many Democrats as possible and drew the line in such a way it looked like an ink's blot to just include almost 100% Democrat, to make sure not to waste any Republican votes somewhere else.

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Now I'm saying Democrat and Republican because that's how that happened, because the Republicans had the power to do that.

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But gerrymandering is something that anyone with power will do.

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You know the little boy who's drawing the line around the Christmas tree?

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You know there are very few people.

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There are some, but there are.

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You know there are certainly.

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It's certainly very difficult to resist the temptation, when you have the power to draw the line to benefit yourself and your friends, to be 100% fair.

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That's very difficult to do.

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Strangely enough, teachers have done experiments in schools and they do find that women tend to be a little bit fairer and more concerned about fairness um, across, um, you know, across the board, whereas boys tend to.

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If boys are given the power to make the rules, they'll, you know, make rules that say things like girls are at the end of the line, or you know whatever it is.

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But that's a different topic.

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But we can go down a whole.

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That's a whole.

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We should go on and on.

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We can talk about that.

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Yeah, I think that's a whole different episode.

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We could go on and on.

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Do you want to come back?

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We can talk about that next time.

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I think that's one of the most interesting things that I heard about a teacher who'd done that experiment year after year after year, and every time he gave the boys the power to make the decisions they would make.

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These rules that you know essentially empowered them and took the power away from the girls, but the girls would make the rules to make it fair for everyone.

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But you know, anyway, your question about why is gerrymandering bad.

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Well, it's bad for about six or seven different reasons.

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One of the reasons is that it because it makes these very non-competitive districts where you essentially know the outcome.

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You know this district is going to elect a Democrat, or you know this district is going to elect a Republican, so the election in November isn't very important because you know the outcome.

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But it makes the primary incredibly important because it just means who is going to get on that ballot, which Republican is going to get on that ballot, which Democrat is going to get on that ballot, and so and the primary, not that many people vote in primary.

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So that's very undemocratic right there.

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And secondly, you know what it does is if you have a very conservative Republican, let's say Ohio representative, and somebody wants to challenge them in the primary.

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The only way for them to get the attention is to be even more conservative and more extreme and more extreme and more extreme.

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So you get these extreme candidates in the primaries and then you get extreme candidates who win and they have no incentive to compromise or negotiate or to kind of talk to the middle, because they know that they are going to win.

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So you have unresponsive government.

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You know no competition, foregone conclusions.

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Voters are not that interested in voting in elections where they already know the outcome, where they know they're the representative doesn't really care what they think, because they know they're going to get elected, and so it's really just a way of distorting our democracy.

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Because then you get these, you know, you get folks at the statehouse basically doing things in order to impress this tiny group of voters who go to the primary and vote in a partisan primary as opposed to trying to help the whole state, you know, solve its problems and get better and move ahead in the world, and that I think you can see when you look at things that are happening in Ohio that this is a big problem.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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That was a really good explanation.

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Thank you for sharing that.

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I love the Christmas present analogy.

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I just love Christmas in general, but I've never had gerrymandering explained like that simply to me that I can like actually picture this happening between my brother and I as kids, like that was a really good.

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I think you may have an older brother like I have.

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Yeah, yes, and he won't listen to this, so we can say this freely, that's right.

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So we briefly touched on the gerrymandering anti-gerrymandering amendment that will be on the ballot, or hopefully be on the ballot, this November, but there was also a gerrymandering amendment that passed in Ohio in 2018.

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So what happened there, what went wrong and why do we need another redistricting reform initiative right now?

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Yeah, that's another great question now, yeah, that's another great question.

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So, as I mentioned earlier, you know, folks have been trying to get rid of gerrymandering in Ohio for a long time, since the 1980s, and there was a ballot initiative that failed in 2005 and another one that failed in 2012.

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And they were trying to do, you know, more like a citizens commission, and because it failed, the folks who were in charge at that time really felt that they really didn't have much of an alternative to do that again in the same way, to try to do a citizens initiative to take politicians out of it.

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And so what they did is they did a compromise with folks at the statehouse, they did redistricting reform, but it wasn't.

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It was actually the, the legislature, that put it on the ballot.

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It didn't get.

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We didn't get all the signatures and we didn't get on the ballot through signatures.

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And you know exactly the language that we wanted.

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We negotiated the language with the folks at the statehouse, the language with the folks at the statehouse.

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And so, even though there were really good rules actually that banned districts that favored one political party or another and that required communities to be kept together, and you know, et cetera, all kinds of good rules.

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Essentially, what happened is the folks at the statehouse and at the Ohio redistricting commission they're all politicians and they all you know we're going to benefit from drawing the lines to benefit themselves.

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They just broke the rules and then they ran out the clock.

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Various advocacy organizations challenged the maps.

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They took it to the court and the court struck the maps down.

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In fact they struck them down seven times.

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But unfortunately there wasn't because this was a negotiated agreement.

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Essentially there wasn't a mechanism for fixing the maps, that didn't just send it right back to the same people who had drawn the bad maps in the first place.

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So every time they drew a bad map, it would be struck down by the court and it would go back to the commission and the commission would drew a bad map.

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It would be struck down by the court and it would go back to the commission and the commission would draw another bad map and then it would go back to the court and it just went around in circles until they ran out the clock.

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And you know there were lawsuits and they got federal courts involved and stuff.

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So really I mean they, they didn't abide by the law.

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They didn't abide by the law.

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They didn't respect the Ohio Constitution, they didn't respect the Ohio Supreme Court, they didn't respect the voters in Ohio, and so that's why we now are saying, ok, look, they have proven beyond all doubt that politicians are incapable of drawing maps without trying to benefit in some way, you know, for themselves, or for their party, or for their colleagues, or whatever it is, and that's why it's important right now to take it away from politicians.

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It's interesting that those Supreme Court decisions were majority decisions where one Republican on the court joined the Democrats on the court and was the swing vote that struck all those maps down.

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And that particular vote was former Chief Justice Maureen O'Connor, and she is actually heading up this citizens, not politicians, effort.

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She, from her very first ruling, she said this is not a good way of doing this.

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The politicians are drawing the lines to benefit themselves.

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We need something better.

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We need a citizens commission that will take it out of the hands of politicians.

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And so that's you know, then she.

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Unfortunately, in Ohio we have mandatory retirement for Supreme Court justices at age 70.

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So she was required to retire, which she did, and now she's leading this effort.

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So that's kind of an interesting part of the story.

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Yeah, that really is Okay.

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So we know what went wrong with kind of 2018.

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We left it in the hands of politicians.

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So can you explain, then, the current amendment, what you know?

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What are all the grassroots orgs fighting for?

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What is the citizens, not politicians amendment?

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And you know what?

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What is it going to do for Ohio if we get on the ballot and pass it?

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Yeah.

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So what it would do would be to establish a Citizens Redistricting Commission where politicians and lobbyists and their family members are explicitly banned from being part of the commission, and the commission would have 15 members five Republicans, five Democrats and five independents or unaffiliated voters.

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And then everything about the way that the commission would work would require assenting votes from at least five people from one of the groups.

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Vote this way and maybe they convince a couple of independents to join them and then they win.

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It has to have participation from all sides, so it's a balanced citizens commission.

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The commission is chosen in a very careful way to make sure that it's fair and that it's transparent and that we have an opportunity the public has an opportunity to see who these people are, who are applying.

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Are they really who they say they are?

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What are their connections, what are their financial contributions to different candidates and parties and things like that.

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And the commission is also chosen with an eye to both demographic and geographic diversity.

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So we're not going to have 15, you know white men from Cuyahoga County or 15 black women from Hamilton County.

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You know there's going to be some diversity and also an effort to make sure that there are people with skills, although the commission does have the ability to hire technical staff as well and I will say that the commission was written, you know, by Ohioans, but also with very, very knowledgeable experts from around the country and with the benefit of the knowledge of what has happened with various citizens commissions in other states.

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So there are citizens redistricting commissions in California, in Colorado, in Arizona, in Michigan and in other states, and some and they're all different Some have, you know, five members and some have 12 members or different numbers of people.

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They have different rules for selection in other places what hasn't worked well?

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And, of course, we all have the visceral knowledge of the nightmare that was the last couple of years of the redistricting in Ohio, and you know the saga at the courts and the.

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You know ending up voting on maps that had been declared unconstitutional, and you know that was very, very traumatic and so that went.

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All of that knowledge went into the drafting of this amendment and I think that the things that are important about it are that it's balanced, that there's transparency, that the public can, you know, has it's written into the law that the public has to be able to weigh in on these maps.

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It's based in large part on communities of interest, that communities that come and speak to the commission and say what it is that they want.

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That has to be taken into consideration.

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It explicitly bans gerrymandering to favor or disfavor any political party, politician, incumbent or candidate, and you know it really tries to check every box of you know what you need in order to have fair redistricting.

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And the other thing that it does is it has a mechanism for resolving conflicts and disputes so that if the maps are challenged, it isn't going to be going around in circles forever.

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There is a very clear set of rules as to exactly what has to happen and it limits the amount that the Supreme Court can weigh in and kind of meddle.

00:24:09.726 --> 00:24:14.335
It just says, okay, if this map it isn't, it's been challenged.

00:24:14.335 --> 00:24:26.371
Then it goes to these two special masters, who are technical experts, who essentially just take the map and make it abide by the rules that are in the law.

00:24:26.371 --> 00:24:39.949
So it's, you know, nothing is foolproof, but for the to the best of their ability, the folks that drafted it tried to make sure that they covered all of these bases.

00:24:40.651 --> 00:24:41.172
That's amazing.

00:24:41.172 --> 00:24:46.048
Okay, so if it say it passes in November, when would it become law?

00:24:46.510 --> 00:24:47.573
Yes, great question.

00:24:47.573 --> 00:25:03.128
So right now we have maps, our congressional maps and our Ohio House and Senate maps would be the same all the way through the census and map drawing and we wouldn't get new maps until 2032.

00:25:03.128 --> 00:25:14.074
If we pass this amendment in November 2024, in the beginning of 2025, the commission would be selected.

00:25:14.074 --> 00:25:28.442
The commission would begin to work in the spring and summer, they would draw new maps in 2025, and those new maps would be used for congressional and Ohio Statehouse elections in 2026.

00:25:28.442 --> 00:25:31.522
So we would get new maps in 2026.

00:25:31.522 --> 00:25:38.479
And that is a lot better than that's a lot better than 2032.

00:25:39.026 --> 00:25:41.875
Yeah absolutely Wow, okay, yeah, that's a really big deal.

00:25:42.365 --> 00:25:43.126
Yeah, that's crazy.

00:25:43.126 --> 00:25:47.537
I can't even believe that 2032 is actually a real year right now.

00:25:47.537 --> 00:25:48.644
Like crazy.

00:25:48.644 --> 00:25:50.588
I can't even believe that 2032 is actually a real year right now.

00:25:50.588 --> 00:25:51.230
Like that's how far away it is.

00:25:51.230 --> 00:25:55.769
So that's super important that we get this passed in November, but before that we have to get it on the ballot.

00:25:55.769 --> 00:26:01.230
So maybe can you talk a little bit about that process and what it actually takes to get it on the ballot in November.

00:26:01.811 --> 00:26:06.586
Yes, Well, we are lucky in Ohio because not every state has this.

00:26:06.586 --> 00:26:23.481
Actually, it's a minority of states that have the ability essentially, when the legislature is not doing what you want them to do, to go around them and to organize together and to put an issue directly in front of the voters in November.

00:26:23.481 --> 00:26:30.738
So that is what we're trying to do and the way you do it is you go out and you have to collect a shit ton of signatures.

00:26:30.738 --> 00:26:32.289
That's the official amount.

00:26:32.289 --> 00:26:38.973
Yes, I love that 413,000 and change.

00:26:38.973 --> 00:26:53.865
But those signatures all have to be valid and even if every single signature you got was valid which is impossible by the time you turn it in in July, they won't all be valid because some people will have moved and this and that other things will have happened.

00:26:53.865 --> 00:26:58.678
So you know the campaign is looking to collect at least 700,000 signatures.

00:26:58.678 --> 00:27:00.386
That's a lot of signatures.

00:27:00.386 --> 00:27:02.289
Collect at least 700,000 signatures, that's a lot of signatures.

00:27:02.289 --> 00:27:07.719
They also have to be there, have to be a certain amount, a certain percentage from 44 counties.

00:27:07.719 --> 00:27:25.133
So you can't just go out and collect 700,000 signatures in Columbus, you have to get all across Ohio and I'm sure we will have collected thousands in every single county in Ohio by the time we're done, and so we are doing that.

00:27:25.133 --> 00:27:43.880
The campaign is doing that both with some paid signature gatherers but with a huge, huge army of volunteer gatherers, and I can tell you there are so many people out there with clipboards who are really devoting an incredible amount of time.

00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:48.633
I mean we started on November 29th or something.

00:27:48.633 --> 00:27:52.420
Do you know how cold it was in November and December?

00:27:52.420 --> 00:28:06.294
Do you know how many folks who are my age or older than me, you know, have been out in the snow and the wind with their mittens and their mufflers and scarves, you know, collecting a signature?

00:28:06.294 --> 00:28:27.813
So it I just want to take my hat off to the volunteers who are out there and have been out there, Um, and to the people who will be joining us, because we still have, um, March, April, May, part of June, June, where we'll be collecting signatures and it's going to get nicer out and it's going to be really important.

00:28:27.853 --> 00:28:43.489
So we fair districts, we do a pretty thorough training because even though it's pretty easy to collect signatures, it's also easy to have the person sign just like slightly wrong and then the signature doesn't count.

00:28:43.489 --> 00:28:49.450
So it is really important to get good training and to make sure that the signatures you're getting will count.

00:28:49.450 --> 00:28:55.835
You know there's like little things that you can do that that would make none of your signatures count, which is silly.

00:28:55.835 --> 00:29:01.977
So, you know, got to get trained and get your booklets and get out there, and that's what we're encouraging people to do.

00:29:02.285 --> 00:29:21.897
And Fair Districts is kind of great because we're a coalition and so you know, you can join with your big group, you can join with your small group, you can join as an individual and we will get you trained and we'll get you this equipment that you need and we'll get you out there participating and getting signatures.

00:29:21.897 --> 00:29:31.415
And one of the reasons that volunteer signatures are so important is because we really care about this issue and we're not just saying, hey, sign here, I need this.

00:29:31.415 --> 00:29:36.068
We're saying, help us solve this problem that we have in Ohio.

00:29:36.068 --> 00:29:37.594
Do you know what gerrymandering is?

00:29:37.594 --> 00:29:38.676
Do you know why it's bad?

00:29:38.676 --> 00:29:41.934
This is an opportunity we have to make things better in Ohio.

00:29:41.934 --> 00:29:47.313
Sign this, but then vote for it in November, and that's really, really important.

00:29:47.845 --> 00:29:49.351
I have a success story.

00:29:49.351 --> 00:29:50.173
Oh, sorry Ash.

00:29:50.484 --> 00:29:51.609
I was just going to say that's really amazing.

00:29:51.609 --> 00:29:53.050
Yeah, it's a lot of work.

00:29:53.050 --> 00:30:08.914
We did interview several people when issue one was on the ballot last November in Ohio, so we are pretty familiar, I think, with that process, but just wanted to make sure that our listeners also understood the enormous amount of effort it takes to get something on the ballot in.

00:30:08.974 --> 00:30:09.236
Ohio.

00:30:09.236 --> 00:30:24.770
Yes, and I have a success story A friend of mine she actually lives in Clintonville, she is traditionally not really involved in politics but she has been very supportive of the podcast and whatnot.

00:30:24.770 --> 00:30:27.958
Probably a couple of months ago at this point she texted me.

00:30:27.958 --> 00:30:30.253
She's like, oh, my goodness, you'll be so proud of me.

00:30:30.253 --> 00:30:43.396
She said she was leaving the grocery store and there were some people with clipboards and she was like you know what I'm not in a rush today, I'm going to hear them out and their first question was oh, have you heard of gerrymandering?

00:30:43.396 --> 00:30:49.396
And she's like, yeah, I actually have, you know from this podcast and following us on social media and whatnot.

00:30:49.396 --> 00:30:55.397
And and she signed, she signed to get it on the ballot and I was, I was so proud of her.

00:30:55.397 --> 00:30:57.508
It was such a great story.

00:30:57.508 --> 00:31:04.599
But then she followed up with like how do I make sure, or how do people make sure, that their signature does count?

00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:11.499
Like, what can the signee do to make sure their signature can be counted and is valid?

00:31:12.326 --> 00:31:19.619
Well, the first thing they want to do is make sure that they are signing with the address that matches their voter registration.

00:31:19.619 --> 00:31:21.674
And quite often people move and forget to update their voter registration.

00:31:21.674 --> 00:31:29.833
And quite often people move and forget to update their voter registration so they put their current address, but their voter registration is actually where they previously lived.

00:31:29.833 --> 00:31:33.365
So you can very easily check your voter registration.

00:31:33.365 --> 00:31:44.817
You can go to voteohiogov and check and we also have, you know, the person who's collecting the signature should be able to help you check and just make sure and then update your voter registration at the same time.

00:31:44.817 --> 00:31:50.097
So sign with your current address and then update your voter registration and make sure that they match.

00:31:50.845 --> 00:31:56.238
Sometimes people are worried about like, well, am I, should I use my middle initial or not?

00:31:56.238 --> 00:32:00.476
You should try to do it the same way that it is with your voter registration.

00:32:00.476 --> 00:32:05.257
And again, looking up your voter registration will help because it'll show you what you have on there.

00:32:05.257 --> 00:32:07.930
But that shouldn't.

00:32:07.930 --> 00:32:09.013
It shouldn't be.

00:32:09.013 --> 00:32:17.076
You know, as long as the person who's validating that booklet can tell that that's you, that's your address, that's your signature, it doesn't matter in.

00:32:17.076 --> 00:32:26.096
You know hugely whether you use the middle initial in exactly the same way, you should also try to make sure that your signature matches.

00:32:26.096 --> 00:32:32.618
Your signature should be, you know, the one that you normally use, the one that's on your driver's license, the one that's in your voter registration.

00:32:33.847 --> 00:32:35.724
They do check to make sure that it matches.

00:32:35.724 --> 00:32:42.664
If your signature has radically changed for whatever reason just you know, when people get older, their signatures change.

00:32:42.664 --> 00:33:07.134
Sometimes when they're not well, their signature changes or, you know, for whatever reason it's a very good idea to fill out a new paper voter registration form and submit that to your board of elections and that will update what your signature looks like so that when they go to check to see that it matches, it will actually match what you put on the signature on the petition booklet.

00:33:07.134 --> 00:33:27.123
So sometimes when I come across someone who is elderly or they have an illness or there's some other reason that their signature has really changed a lot, I just take out a voter registration form and I say, hey, let's fill this out at the same time so that we make sure that it matched, that this matches what's in the petition booklet.

00:33:33.625 --> 00:33:34.125
That's very good to know.

00:33:34.125 --> 00:33:44.191
I told her I was pretty sure it had to mostly match what's on her driver's license, but I also, like wasn't 100% sure, and now I'm thinking of just how lazy I've gotten with my signature and and I just need to probably check all of that.

00:33:44.191 --> 00:33:46.536
So that's really really useful information.

00:33:46.536 --> 00:33:47.218
Thank you so much.

00:33:47.218 --> 00:33:48.547
You're welcome.

00:33:48.547 --> 00:33:55.189
So we well, you even mentioned that both Democrats and Republicans do this, and so gerrymandering that is.

00:33:55.189 --> 00:33:57.915
And so can you talk about who's backing this amendment?

00:33:57.915 --> 00:34:01.724
Do you see it as partisan or nonpartisan, and can you explain that?

00:34:02.507 --> 00:34:07.153
Yes, Well, it's very, very genuinely nonpartisan.

00:34:07.153 --> 00:34:17.005
You know, if somebody wanted to do a partisan amendment, they would do something that where you are allowed to benefit one side or the other.

00:34:17.005 --> 00:34:29.418
But if you essentially set up rules that say nobody's allowed to cheat and nobody's allowed to benefit themselves or their friends, then that is by definition not partisan.

00:34:29.418 --> 00:34:45.219
Now, of course, you know, in Ohio, in Ohio, it's the Republicans who've had the power to draw the lines the last couple of times, so obviously, and they are disproportionately represented at the statehouse.

00:34:45.219 --> 00:34:57.164
So obviously, democrats, you know, have a stronger interest in well, they have a strong interest, I should say, in making sure that we do away with gerrymandering.

00:34:57.164 --> 00:35:15.434
But Republicans have a very strong interest in getting rid of gerrymandering as well because, as I mentioned before, nobody is represented by politicians who are unaccountable Politicians, who know that they can get elected and who are just catering to the far extreme of their party.

00:35:15.434 --> 00:35:24.329
They don't represent anyone and when they, you know they don't benefit their constituents, no matter what party they're from, and they also don't benefit.

00:35:24.329 --> 00:35:41.166
When you think about, you know, ohio, and like our education system and all kinds of other measures, you can tell that these folks are not actually helping our state they're not, because there's lots of problems that need to be addressed and that are not being addressed.

00:35:41.166 --> 00:36:08.521
And so, and I will tell you very, very genuinely that sometimes when I have to look somebody up, you know I'm out there and I'm looking someone up to see if they're registered at their the address that they think they're registered at, or whatever, and the little app that I use to look folks up also, you know, just like on a voter roll, says whether they hold a Democrat or Republican ballot in the primary or whether they're unaffiliated.

00:36:08.521 --> 00:36:22.251
It is, it is both parties, it is, you know, that donkeymandering.

00:36:22.251 --> 00:36:26.494
Take politicians out of the redistricting process.

00:36:26.494 --> 00:36:34.318
I see people who've been walking past me and they turn around and they come back and they know everybody will benefit when, when politicians aren't allowed to cheat anymore.

00:36:34.318 --> 00:36:48.353
That's just you know, that's just a fact.

00:36:49.684 --> 00:36:59.090
So, and there are, you know, in addition to former Chief Justice O'Connor, there are other prominent Republicans who are backing this reform.

00:36:59.090 --> 00:37:00.931
There are other prominent Republicans who are backing this reform.

00:37:00.931 --> 00:37:12.099
In fact, this past weekend, arnold Schwarzenegger, republican governor of California, was in town and he came out in favor of the citizens, not politicians amendment.

00:37:12.099 --> 00:37:15.641
He very strongly favors citizens commissions.

00:37:15.641 --> 00:37:17.202
There is one in California.

00:37:17.202 --> 00:37:24.150
He didn't like gerrymandering because in California the Democrats were gerrymandering.

00:37:24.150 --> 00:37:29.150
You know they had the power to draw the lines and they were drawing them unfairly to benefit Democrats.

00:37:29.150 --> 00:37:32.818
So that's why he says terminate gerrymandering.

00:37:32.818 --> 00:37:35.713
We're trying, arnold, we're trying.

00:37:37.771 --> 00:37:38.594
I see what he did there.

00:37:39.025 --> 00:37:41.431
Yeah, that makes sense.

00:37:41.431 --> 00:37:43.235
Yeah, I mean, obviously we very much agree.

00:37:43.235 --> 00:37:49.157
This is a nonpartisan, you know reform effort and we're excited to help with it as well.

00:37:49.157 --> 00:37:54.016
So it seems like a silly question, but I'm going to ask it Are there people opposing your efforts?

00:37:54.016 --> 00:37:56.289
And if so, can you kind of explain who and why?

00:37:58.052 --> 00:38:07.371
Absolutely Guess who, the people who are benefiting from the current corrupt uh rules and maps.

00:38:07.371 --> 00:38:19.284
And you know status quo and they will say absolutely anything, um, but every time they say something, just remember uh-huh, yes, that is what you would say, isn't it?

00:38:19.284 --> 00:38:20.505
Because you're benefiting?

00:38:20.505 --> 00:38:39.159
How can you possibly say that a system which explicitly forbids people from cheating is a bad system, is worse than the system that you did, where you have taken a disproportionate number of the districts that doesn't reflect how Ohioans actually vote.

00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:51.594
So absolutely 100% of the people who you would suspect would be against this amendment are against this amendment and it's 100% clear why they're against it.

00:38:51.594 --> 00:39:06.311
So it almost makes me laugh, like it's the things that they have to say about you know why they want to keep the system the way it is are, honestly, you know they're laughable.

00:39:07.653 --> 00:39:13.130
So you know it's all the folks who were on the redistricting commission.

00:39:13.130 --> 00:39:14.596
You know Matt Huffman.

00:39:14.596 --> 00:39:32.889
I mean it's interesting because even Governor DeWine, who was on the redistricting commission and did vote for all of those bad maps, he, you know, at various points in the process he said, oh, this doesn't seem very constitutional, this doesn't seem like this is going the way it should.

00:39:32.889 --> 00:39:40.280
And then at the end, he, you know, he has basically come out and said, yeah, politicians shouldn't, politicians shouldn't be part of this process.

00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:42.353
So we agree, politicians shouldn't be part of this process.

00:39:42.353 --> 00:39:43.619
So we agree, they shouldn't.

00:39:44.144 --> 00:39:53.454
Yeah, it's not surprising to hear, right, that there's the people in there that have been in there, that have had the power, that are, you know, standing in opposition to this reform item.

00:39:53.454 --> 00:39:59.931
I mean, we saw it last August when they tried to take the whole power away from Ohioans to even get anything on the ballot, you know.

00:39:59.931 --> 00:40:04.054
And then also we saw it, I mean, we, we see it now with ranked choice voting.

00:40:04.054 --> 00:40:07.592
I mean, they're, you know, trying to implement laws to ban ranked choice voting.

00:40:07.592 --> 00:40:10.708
Another thing it's like how can you even pretend that that's partisan or bad?

00:40:10.708 --> 00:40:13.414
So yeah, not surprising, but unfortunate.

00:40:13.414 --> 00:40:16.226
So, of course, a hundred percent, a hundred percent.

00:40:16.947 --> 00:40:24.592
Yep, so I know we talked about people signing to get this amendment on the ballot.

00:40:24.592 --> 00:40:38.742
That's a great way to get involved, but how can our Ohio listeners get involved beyond that, or how can they find a location to get their signature counted, and how can they just ultimately make a difference?

00:40:39.762 --> 00:40:42.565
And how can they just ultimately make a difference?

00:40:42.565 --> 00:41:00.016
Well, we definitely want you to come out and volunteer, and the easiest way to do that is to go to this URL bitly, so bitly forward slash, and then Vol Fair Districts.

00:41:00.016 --> 00:41:07.422
Slash and then Vol Fair Districts.

00:41:07.422 --> 00:41:16.447
It's all lowercase V-O-L-F-A-I-R-D-I-S-T-R-I-C-T-S, so Vol Fair Districts.

00:41:16.447 --> 00:41:28.998
That is a place where you can sign up to volunteer and you know, once you do that, a local leader will reach out to you and you know help you get training, get booklets, give you ideas of where to go, collect, you know, just basically make you part of their team.

00:41:28.998 --> 00:41:48.925
And then, if you're looking for somewhere to sign, there's a thing called Mobilize, and so it's basically you go to mobilizeus forward, slash, and then citizens, not politicians Again, it's all lowercase Mobilizeus, forward, slash, citizens, not politicians.

00:41:49.190 --> 00:41:50.023
That's all one word.

00:41:50.023 --> 00:42:01.978
And when you do that, it'll come up with you know 100 different places to sign and you can filter it by date or by zip code and you can find the signing event nearest to you.

00:42:01.978 --> 00:42:17.876
Now, if you are having, if anyone listening goes to mobilize and they can't find anything close to them, they're more than welcome to contact me and I'll make sure to put them in touch with someone.

00:42:17.876 --> 00:42:21.315
I'm going to give you my Common Cause email.

00:42:21.315 --> 00:42:24.726
Just drop it for you.

00:42:24.726 --> 00:42:36.954
It's mlewis at commoncauseorg and you know I'll put you in touch with someone who can let you know where you can sign in your area or where you can volunteer in your area.

00:42:36.954 --> 00:42:47.295
So feel free to reach out to me and I can either hook you up for volunteering or for signing, and really there are so many people that are out there doing great work.

00:42:47.295 --> 00:43:00.054
Election day primary election day is a great day to collect signatures, so we're hoping a lot of folks sign up to collect at polling places on election day as well.

00:43:00.054 --> 00:43:02.199
Awesome, I will do that.

00:43:03.664 --> 00:43:10.876
It's been on my list to sign up, so I actually I went to the Citizens Not Politician page and tried to sign up there and I feel like I haven't really gotten it, but I will use the URL you just gave me.

00:43:10.876 --> 00:43:14.735
We will make sure this is all in our show notes link so people can just go and grab it.

00:43:14.735 --> 00:43:16.811
We'll probably put it on our Instagram as well.

00:43:27.184 --> 00:43:28.347
So that way, people can just easily get to this stuff.

00:43:28.347 --> 00:43:28.889
So thank you so much, mia.

00:43:28.889 --> 00:43:31.277
That is amazing and I'm very, very excited to go get some signatures for this initiative awesome.

00:43:31.277 --> 00:43:32.340
So the citizens, not politicians, website is um it's.

00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:32.581
You know.

00:43:32.581 --> 00:43:37.168
They have a lot of um press on there and they have the petition on there, um, and that's great.

00:43:37.168 --> 00:43:46.840
But I think if you're looking to volunteer, definitely our website will get you, our link will get you hooked up more quickly.

00:43:46.840 --> 00:44:07.875
And here's another one that I'm giving you Fair Districts, ohio dot org trainings and a toolkit and the petition and you know so many other things explanations about gerrymandering and things that are going on and all sorts of stuff.

00:44:07.875 --> 00:44:16.898
So you know these are all useful links and you know we would love to get you involved and part of the team.

00:44:17.724 --> 00:44:19.190
Okay, great, yeah, that all sounds great.

00:44:19.190 --> 00:44:20.985
Like I said, we'll make sure that's all in the show notes.

00:44:20.985 --> 00:44:22.398
We'll blast it on our Instagrams too, so people have it.

00:44:22.398 --> 00:44:23.230
Okay, great, yeah, that all sounds great.

00:44:23.230 --> 00:44:23.945
Like I said, we'll make sure that's all in the show notes.

00:44:23.945 --> 00:44:24.657
We'll blast it on our Instagrams too, so people have it.

00:44:24.657 --> 00:44:24.960
Okay, we're going to start.

00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:28.280
To wrap up, we're going to ask you just like, some opinionated questions here.

00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:30.588
No facts or anything needed, just kind of your gut.

00:44:30.588 --> 00:44:38.396
Do you think the anti-jarring amendment, the Citizens, not Politician Amendment, is going to pass here in Ohio, after, of course, we get on the ballot?

00:44:43.326 --> 00:44:46.072
here in Ohio after, of course, we get on the ballot Absolutely 100% Love that.

00:44:46.072 --> 00:45:03.021
And I think so because I think it is really a nonpartisan issue, and by nonpartisan I mean every different flavor, political flavor of Ohioan is interested in having a fair representative government where they get to.

00:45:03.021 --> 00:45:09.518
They get to choose their electeds rather than their electeds choosing them in order to rig the system.

00:45:09.518 --> 00:45:11.427
Yeah, absolutely.

00:45:11.608 --> 00:45:12.150
I think so too.

00:45:13.052 --> 00:45:15.157
Me too, and I'm really excited for it.

00:45:15.157 --> 00:45:21.577
Last question here, going a bit more big picture Do you have hope for the future of democracy in Ohio?

00:45:22.465 --> 00:45:24.150
I'm worried about democracy.

00:45:24.150 --> 00:45:26.956
I am, I mean, I'm worried on the larger scale.

00:45:26.956 --> 00:45:33.215
I'm worried for our nation, and I think disinformation is a huge part of it.

00:45:33.215 --> 00:45:59.599
I think a lot of folks are, you know, getting a lot of bad information that is leading them to some really harmful ideas, and so I think, if you care about democracy, it's very important to get involved and to take action and, you know, to try to spread correct ideas.

00:46:00.041 --> 00:46:18.775
So I think we're working hard in Ohio, and I think that that's very important, but it does feel sometimes like the world is changing at an incredibly fast pace, and some of that is stuff that we can do, we can have an impact on, and some of it isn't.

00:46:18.775 --> 00:46:21.523
So anything that you can have an impact on, I think we all need to step up and do what we can have an impact on, and some of it isn't.

00:46:21.523 --> 00:46:33.672
So anything that you can have an impact on, I think we all need to step up and do what we can, and so this is an example of something that we can have an impact on, and so we definitely need to try.

00:46:34.215 --> 00:46:34.795
Absolutely.

00:46:34.795 --> 00:46:35.878
We're going to fight for it.

00:46:36.364 --> 00:46:37.449
Yep, great answer.

00:46:37.449 --> 00:46:40.358
Well, mia, that is really it for today.

00:46:40.358 --> 00:46:41.603
Thank you so much for coming on.

00:46:41.603 --> 00:46:44.416
I know I feel equipped to take action, to get involved.

00:46:44.416 --> 00:46:47.971
I you know I think all of our listeners will too, and so we really really appreciate your time.

00:46:48.311 --> 00:46:49.876
Well, thank you, I appreciate you too.

00:46:50.664 --> 00:46:52.550
Yeah, yes, thanks, mia.

00:46:52.550 --> 00:46:55.396
Thank you everyone for tuning in and we'll catch you in a couple of weeks.

00:47:00.005 --> 00:47:01.829
Thanks for joining us for today's episode.

00:47:01.971 --> 00:47:12.134
We really appreciate the support we would also really appreciate it if you hit the follow button and share this episode with anyone you think would enjoy it and we'd like to thank kevin tanner, who edited this episode.

00:47:12.675 --> 00:47:19.067
If you're interested in learning more about him and his services, his website and instagram are in the show notes with that we'll see you next week.