The Impact of Reproductive Rights on IVF, Surrogacy & 3rd Party Reproduction with Jessie Jaskulsky

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:00.461 --> 00:00:07.780
So let's say you live in Nebraska where it's not surrogacy friendly, but the baby's going to be born in a surrogacy friendly state.

00:00:07.780 --> 00:00:08.945
That would be okay.

00:00:08.945 --> 00:00:13.811
The only nuance to that is that your embryo transfer would not be able to take place in that state.

00:00:13.811 --> 00:00:18.391
You would have to ship your embryos to the surrogate friendly state where the baby was going to be born.

00:00:30.019 --> 00:00:30.702
Welcome back to the United.

00:00:30.702 --> 00:00:32.326
She Stands podcast, the show that brings kindness and women into politics.

00:00:32.345 --> 00:00:41.240
I'm Ashley and I'm Sarah, and we're two women from Ohio who are here to become more educated about American politics and build a community so we can all get involved and make an impact together.

00:00:41.841 --> 00:00:44.084
We hope we'll inspire and empower you along the way.

00:00:44.084 --> 00:01:02.006
Hello everyone, and welcome back to the United she Stands podcast.

00:01:02.006 --> 00:01:03.351
This week we have a special guest for you guys Jessie Jeskolsky.

00:01:03.351 --> 00:01:12.072
After a devastating 22-week pregnancy loss that led to secondary infertility, jessie spent years trying to complete her family and ultimately had both of her daughters through surrogacy.

00:01:12.072 --> 00:01:16.632
Through Jessie's journey to becoming a mom, she felt as if there was an obstacle at every turn.

00:01:16.632 --> 00:01:27.926
Because of this journey, jessie founded Surrogacy Simplified, a boutique, surrogacy consulting and white glove concierge that helps intended parents start or complete their family through the selfless gift of surrogacy.

00:01:27.926 --> 00:01:36.146
Jessie takes care of all the details, big and small, allowing her clients to truly enjoy this beautiful pathway to parenthood, and we are so excited to have you, jessie.

00:01:36.146 --> 00:01:38.545
Thanks for joining us, thank you for having me.

00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:52.683
Yes, we're super excited to have you, and this is a topic I don't know much about, so I'm really just excited to dive in here.

00:01:52.683 --> 00:01:54.772
So your bio tells us why you got started in the surrogacy space and why you're passionate about it.

00:01:54.772 --> 00:01:56.358
Could you elaborate, though, on what led you here a little bit more?

00:01:56.358 --> 00:01:59.087
Like I said, we touched on it a bit, but maybe just a little more color.

00:01:59.087 --> 00:02:02.900
And what exactly do you do at Surrogacy?

00:02:02.900 --> 00:02:04.566
Simplified, yes.

00:02:05.367 --> 00:02:22.492
So when I went through my infertility journey, I was sort of at this crossroads where I had had a pregnancy loss and then, through having my loss, I now had all of these infertility issues and it was not only did I need to get pregnant, but I then needed to stay pregnant.

00:02:23.139 --> 00:02:36.811
And just I was in sort of this gray area and we just took everything my husband and I that I then needed to stay pregnant, and just I was in sort of this gray area and we just took everything my husband and I that I had been through all the surgeries, the procedures, the pregnancy loss and decided that surrogacy was our best chance at parenthood.

00:02:36.811 --> 00:02:45.685
And then from there I'm actually formally a speech language pathologist, so I guess you could say I've always been a helper, always giving.

00:02:45.685 --> 00:02:51.983
I loved working with kids and really just felt like through surrogacy the process is insanely complicated.

00:02:51.983 --> 00:02:55.882
I'll walk you guys through it later if you want to know more about all of the steps involved.

00:02:55.882 --> 00:03:05.737
But basically I just felt like there needed to be somebody there that understands it, that has lived it and can just guide you through Agencies.

00:03:05.737 --> 00:03:08.025
There's surrogacy agencies and they're super lovely.

00:03:08.025 --> 00:03:09.509
They're also very expensive.

00:03:09.509 --> 00:03:16.169
So I have two service offerings that can make surrogacy in general a little bit more accessible for people.

00:03:16.751 --> 00:03:17.352
That's really great.

00:03:17.352 --> 00:03:21.533
Yeah, we're going to talk about surrogacy for sure a little bit later.

00:03:21.533 --> 00:03:25.185
I think we have it down kind of in order here, but let's talk a little bit first.

00:03:25.185 --> 00:03:34.031
One of the pieces of surrogacy is IVF and we're going to talk about IVF, I think, first, before we talk a little bit more about you know the overall surrogacy process.

00:03:34.031 --> 00:03:39.352
So to dive in there a little bit for people who might not know, can you just tell us what IVF is?

00:03:46.659 --> 00:03:55.366
Yes, so IVF stands for in vitro fertilization and typically how this works is a woman will go through an egg retrieval and a man will have a sperm collection and they will fertilize the egg in a lab dish, just like in vitro suggests.

00:03:55.366 --> 00:04:10.323
And really when you're thinking about IVF, we think typically like the egg and the sperm, but really of the intended mother and the intended father in the case of surrogacy, but really it could also be with a combination of donor eggs and or sperm.

00:04:10.323 --> 00:04:12.586
That makes sense, or donor sperm.

00:04:12.627 --> 00:04:18.504
I meant to say yeah, I thought I knew, like I know what IVF is.

00:04:18.504 --> 00:04:25.149
But just like that explanation I was like, oh okay, like that, that's actually how it's done, like I understood the general concept.

00:04:25.149 --> 00:04:28.920
So I'm already learning here and we're like five minutes in Good.

00:04:29.221 --> 00:04:30.326
Good, I'm so glad, Nothing.

00:04:30.326 --> 00:04:33.279
I'm very much an open book with what I've been through.

00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:37.692
What IVF is like surrogacy, so you can ask any question.

00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:38.819
That's amazing.

00:04:38.819 --> 00:04:39.961
I think that's what we need.

00:04:39.961 --> 00:04:49.807
We need just the openness so everyone knows, you know, if there's even a slightly similar situation like they're not alone, so that's wonderful.

00:04:49.807 --> 00:05:14.930
So we've talked a good amount on this show in previous episodes about how the Dobbs decision which, just a quick reminder, I'm sure we all know, but is the decision from the Supreme Court that overturned Roe v Wade how the Dobbs decision impacts abortion access, but we have not really talked about it in regards to IVF access, and so we're going to take a moment to do so now before we jump into our next question.

00:05:14.930 --> 00:05:25.732
So before Roe v Wade was overturned, embryos were treated as a private property that the respective egg and sperm donors could decide if they wanted to implant, destroy or pass on the embryo without consequence.

00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:32.954
Since the Dobbs ruling and the overturning of Roe, folks had been warning about the right to IVF possibly being taken away.

00:05:32.954 --> 00:05:38.387
Access to abortion was obviously the most talked about implication immediately after Roe was overturned.

00:05:38.387 --> 00:05:42.814
But IVF really came to the spotlight at the start of this year, here in 2024.

00:05:42.814 --> 00:05:46.904
Spotlight at the start of this year, here in 2024.

00:05:46.904 --> 00:05:50.235
It all started back in February when the Alabama Supreme Court decided embryos had the legal status of children in a landmark case.

00:05:50.235 --> 00:05:55.790
To make this clear, this ruling meant that the same legal protections children have were now given to embryos.

00:05:55.790 --> 00:06:07.548
So that protection that Roe provided, where embryos were treated as private property that the respective egg and sperm donors could decide if they wanted to implant, destroy or pass on that protection, was now gone.

00:06:07.548 --> 00:06:10.949
Since then, ivf has taken the limelight in the fight for reproductive rights.

00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:20.211
With the Alabama decision and other state legislation around the country being proposed around IVF, the Senate voted on the Right to IVF Act in June 2024.

00:06:20.211 --> 00:06:24.091
It failed as all Republicans except two voted against it.

00:06:24.091 --> 00:06:30.273
That's sort of a very high-level recap of the battle we're seeing playing out here in our country with IVF this past year.

00:06:30.273 --> 00:06:46.916
But one important thing to note is, despite all the chaos in our legislative and judicial branches, according to the Pew Research Center, as of April of this year, 2024, 7 in 10 adults, which is 70% of Americans, believe access to IVF is a good thing.

00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:49.345
So, jessie, back to the questions here.

00:06:49.345 --> 00:06:58.129
After kind of this high-level summary, you know, and now that we know what we're seeing play out across the country with IVF, can you just tell us a little bit about how that's impacted surrogacy?

00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:02.850
Yes, and luckily surrogacy has not been brought up much yet.

00:07:02.850 --> 00:07:08.346
But of course we need the IVF part in order to do surrogacy.

00:07:08.346 --> 00:07:10.673
And there's a couple different things to keep in mind here.

00:07:10.673 --> 00:07:21.846
The first one that it sets the precedence that IVF providers and patients could face criminal and civil penalties if unused embryos are destroyed so many times.

00:07:21.846 --> 00:07:28.069
After an embryo transfer is successful and parents do not intend to have another child, the unused embryos might be discarded.

00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:40.651
I could see a reality where doctors perhaps give less medication to try to have less embryo, less embryo eggs and then as a result less embryos.

00:07:41.380 --> 00:07:47.540
That gets really tricky because, just to give a little context, ivf is really a numbers game.

00:07:47.540 --> 00:08:07.026
You need a lot of eggs for your egg retrieval because when they go to get fertilized they won't all get fertilized, they won't all make it to a blastocyst which then turns into an embryo and then from there some intended parents or patients will then elect to test their embryos to see if they're genetically normal.

00:08:07.026 --> 00:08:10.990
So you can see you're sort of like, let's say you start at 10.

00:08:10.990 --> 00:08:14.447
You might, when you're done, the odds in your favor.

00:08:14.447 --> 00:08:19.879
You could end up with two, one, if you're really lucky, six Like your numbers start to dwindle.

00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:30.894
So if people then get worried about having to freeze an embryo, doctors might give lower doses of medicine and then perhaps there could be no successful embryos.

00:08:30.894 --> 00:08:37.557
That hasn't happened yet, but that's, I think, where a lot of patients' minds are going when they're thinking about this.

00:08:37.557 --> 00:08:40.894
And then, of course, what's going to happen to any unused embryos?

00:08:41.476 --> 00:08:44.171
Yeah, yeah, and there's a cost to storage, right?

00:08:44.171 --> 00:08:56.957
I mean, we have a friend who went through IVF to have her first and, you know, still has embryos stored and she will text us sometimes about this, you know, and she's like we know there's a cost to storage, we know if they won't destroy them, what does that mean?

00:08:56.957 --> 00:09:03.001
So I think there's just a lot of implications and nobody really knows exactly what that would look like if that became the case.

00:09:03.850 --> 00:09:04.672
Yes, I agree.

00:09:04.672 --> 00:09:14.683
I would be afraid that some patients wouldn't want to move forward with IVF because they would be afraid of that lifetime expense of just indefinitely paying for embryo storage.

00:09:15.210 --> 00:09:18.120
Yeah, and it's already an expensive process, as you've hinted at.

00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:19.071
Absolutely.

00:09:19.572 --> 00:09:25.225
Yeah, so let's talk a bit more about surrogacy, like the IVF.

00:09:25.225 --> 00:09:32.519
I know the overall concept, but can you dig a little deeper and just tell us a bit more about it?

00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:36.010
What exactly is it, is it legally protected, et cetera?

00:09:36.371 --> 00:09:42.134
Yes, so for the purpose of this conversation I'm going to talk mainly about gestational surrogacy.

00:09:42.134 --> 00:09:51.042
Gestational surrogacy is when the surrogate does not have any biological connection to the child, so the embryo is with the intended mother and the intended father.

00:09:51.042 --> 00:09:55.630
Egg and sperm, or we're talking about donor egg and or sperm.

00:09:55.630 --> 00:10:01.364
This is legally protected in most states, with the exception of Nebraska and Louisiana.

00:10:01.364 --> 00:10:05.466
Michigan actually just passed legislation this year, which is really exciting.

00:10:05.466 --> 00:10:07.152
It hasn't gone into effect yet.

00:10:07.152 --> 00:10:12.614
Previously in Michigan there could be surrogacy but the surrogate was not able to take a compensation.

00:10:12.614 --> 00:10:14.961
It had to be what we would call altruistic.

00:10:14.961 --> 00:10:23.298
It's also really important to share for anyone listening you follow the law where the surrogate lives because that's where baby's going to be born.

00:10:23.298 --> 00:10:31.616
So let's say you live in Nebraska, where it's not surrogacy friendly, but the baby's going to be born in a surrogacy friendly state.

00:10:31.616 --> 00:10:32.700
That would be okay.

00:10:32.700 --> 00:10:37.578
The only nuance to that is that your embryo transfer would not be able to take place in that state.

00:10:37.578 --> 00:10:42.177
You would have to ship your embryos to the surrogate-friendly state where the baby was going to be born.

00:10:43.581 --> 00:10:55.940
A brief overview of the legal aspect for those interested the surrogacy contract is a legally binding contract and it really serves to protect all of the parties involved, so the surrogate, the baby and the intended parents.

00:10:55.940 --> 00:11:05.817
It discusses all of the what-ifs, so it goes into all of the different worst-case scenarios which, of course, you don't want to think about, but it's important to have highlighted and outlined.

00:11:05.817 --> 00:11:15.383
Some examples of this are termination, if you would travel, if the surrogate were to go on life support to get the baby to viability.

00:11:15.383 --> 00:11:17.313
It goes into every single scenario.

00:11:17.313 --> 00:11:25.159
After you have your legal contract, your surrogate is then able to move forward with an embryo transfer.

00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:38.100
The other half of the legal piece is establishing parentage and, depending upon your state, there could be a pre-birth order or a post-birth order which essentially grants parenthood to the intended parents.

00:11:38.990 --> 00:11:43.442
Other things to just generally know about surrogacy is that there's so many moving pieces.

00:11:43.442 --> 00:11:48.302
The intended parents and the surrogate will have a psychological evaluation.

00:11:48.302 --> 00:11:52.902
The surrogate will also, in addition to that, have a medical evaluation.

00:11:52.902 --> 00:11:56.139
Also, of course, all of her medical records are approved.

00:11:56.139 --> 00:12:03.543
In addition to that, her health insurance is evaluated to determine whether it's surrogate-friendly.

00:12:03.543 --> 00:12:07.078
Some people will have surrogate-friendly health insurance and they're good.

00:12:07.078 --> 00:12:30.482
Some people will need the intended parents to purchase them a separate health insurance policy, so you can see how costly this gets and back to the legal aspect, there's also going to be two sets of representation one that's going to represent the intended parents and one that's going to represent the surrogate, and the intended parents are responsible for all these associated costs.

00:12:30.482 --> 00:12:32.634
I know I just said a lot.

00:12:32.634 --> 00:12:40.302
I feel like I just word vomited, so please tell me what else I can share with you guys about the process, because it's so nuanced.

00:12:40.690 --> 00:12:41.994
Yeah, I actually have a couple of follow-up questions.

00:12:41.994 --> 00:12:43.779
So you mentioned the exams right.

00:12:43.779 --> 00:12:45.553
So, like psychological, obviously medical.

00:12:45.553 --> 00:12:49.423
Is that the same always, or is that state dependent as well?

00:12:50.210 --> 00:12:51.453
It's the same always.

00:12:51.453 --> 00:12:58.440
A couple of things that can vary, and something I recommend to my clients is not every state will require a psychological group session.

00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:11.679
So that's when the intended parents and the surrogate get together with the psychologist and they talk about different issues, for example, termination, vaccines, how they would want to communicate during the pregnancy, what kind of a relationship they might want after the birth.

00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:12.951
Do they want to stay in contact?

00:13:12.951 --> 00:13:17.659
Do they want to sort of like communication, dwindle down a bit?

00:13:17.659 --> 00:13:40.523
The medical evaluation, I would say, can even vary as much as per fertility clinic, but everybody will test for infectious disease, hormone levels and then do some sort of view of the uterus, whether it's ultrasound, hysteroscopy, some way that they visualize it and make sure that the cavity is cleared and okay for a healthy pregnancy.

00:13:41.291 --> 00:13:42.293
Another follow-up question.

00:13:42.293 --> 00:13:43.976
Thank you for answering that one.

00:13:43.976 --> 00:13:58.514
As far as just starting and I might be asking this very naively, so I apologize, you can reword this for me if you need to but starting the surrogacy process, is that something that typically, like, someone will do after they've had, like, a successful round of IVF?

00:13:58.514 --> 00:14:07.279
Or like, do they come to you kind of from the beginning, like they have to go through IVF to like all of that kind of where does it start with you usually?

00:14:07.539 --> 00:14:10.955
I would say most of my clients come to me once they've created embryos.

00:14:10.955 --> 00:14:23.138
However, if they needed guidance on finding a donor bank, I would be happy to support them as well and I work with people like that also and so in those cases, those individuals would have not begun IVF yet.

00:14:23.659 --> 00:14:24.100
Got it so.

00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:30.131
But first step's always, you know, the embryo, obviously, and then that kind of then takes you into the real surrogacy process.

00:14:30.914 --> 00:14:31.958
Correct and it can get a little nuanced.

00:14:31.958 --> 00:14:34.005
Let's say you want to work with a surrogacy process Correct and it can get a little nuanced.

00:14:34.005 --> 00:14:37.716
Let's say you want to work with a surrogacy agency that has a really long wait list.

00:14:37.716 --> 00:14:44.740
Some intended parents might decide to hop on the wait list let's say it's a year long and then work on creating their embryo.

00:14:44.740 --> 00:14:51.765
So it's definitely a little bit nuanced and different for each person, based on their circumstances too.

00:14:52.395 --> 00:14:52.720
Got it.

00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:54.150
That makes sense, awesome, thank you.

00:14:54.150 --> 00:14:55.732
Yeah, it's something you know.

00:14:55.732 --> 00:15:00.900
Like Sarah said, I don't really know a lot about the process either, so thanks for clarifying that.

00:15:00.900 --> 00:15:03.063
Okay, so I know you mentioned.

00:15:03.063 --> 00:15:03.945
Oh, sorry, sorry, do you have a?

00:15:03.965 --> 00:15:20.451
question open book.

00:15:20.451 --> 00:15:25.224
You will be Just talk about your experience with surrogacy and how like your particular experience, I don't know, I'm just like, I'm just like curious to hear about it.

00:15:25.224 --> 00:15:27.576
I don't even have like a specific question, just like yeah.

00:15:28.899 --> 00:15:30.504
So I had over.

00:15:30.504 --> 00:15:40.273
So for my first journey, I had a surrogate have a miscarriage and actually the IVF medication brought out an underlying health issue for her.

00:15:40.273 --> 00:15:43.683
So we had to break the match with her and we were devastated.

00:15:43.683 --> 00:15:55.731
Not only have we spent a ton of money like with lawyers and medical clearances and travel and everything you can think of, but we'd also just like, developed a relationship with this woman that we thought was going to carry our baby.

00:15:56.373 --> 00:16:00.600
Once we were able to be matched again with our next surrogate, it was really lovely.

00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:07.120
She did such a great job of including my husband and I, telling us cravings aversion, sending us bump pictures.

00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:22.576
My husband and I FaceTimed for every doctor appointment and then we flew to Kentucky, where she lived, for the 12-week appointment, the 20-week anatomy scan, because that one's really special and you get to see all the little body parts.

00:16:22.576 --> 00:16:26.673
And then she ended up delivering my daughter seven weeks early.

00:16:26.673 --> 00:16:40.578
She developed very severe preeclampsia and then we ended up being in her state for about a month in Kentucky while we took care of her, while she was on hospital bed rest, and then, when my daughter was born, we had a NICU stay.

00:16:40.678 --> 00:16:47.302
So we had like ups and downs with that journey, for sure, but nothing with the relation with the surrogate.

00:16:47.302 --> 00:17:05.234
It was just like something unforeseen that had happened and was what really helped propel me to start the business, because and most people in the infertility space feel this way but like if something like I was always this small, my minority, if something was going to go wrong, it had just felt like it happened to me.

00:17:05.234 --> 00:17:06.617
And now I had all of this information that I had acquired.

00:17:06.617 --> 00:17:09.871
My second journey was much smoother for my youngest.

00:17:09.871 --> 00:17:12.156
I talked to both of my surrogates.

00:17:12.156 --> 00:17:14.643
I was in the room for that delivery as well.

00:17:14.643 --> 00:17:22.032
That one was a C-section planned and it was just like a party that they had my husband and I in the room.

00:17:22.032 --> 00:17:26.332
Her husband, they had her country music on that our surrogate liked in the background.

00:17:26.332 --> 00:17:27.714
It was just very special.

00:17:28.296 --> 00:17:29.439
Oh, that's so nice.

00:17:29.439 --> 00:17:31.631
Yeah, thank you for sharing that yeah.

00:17:31.651 --> 00:17:32.432
Thank you so much.

00:17:33.253 --> 00:17:36.560
Okay, so let's talk more about legislation.

00:17:36.560 --> 00:17:44.930
If it's applicable here, because I know you already mentioned it is legal in most states, except I already forget Nebraska, yes, nebraska, and Louisiana and Louisiana I couldn't remember the second state.

00:17:44.930 --> 00:17:47.419
And then you said Michigan just passed legislation.

00:17:47.419 --> 00:17:56.162
Is there any other legislation going on at the state level around the country, or even federal level that you know people should be aware of around in relation to IVF or surrogacy?

00:17:58.910 --> 00:18:09.042
So, interestingly, surrogacy hasn't been talked about much but I'm hearing a lot of intended parents that will come to me and they want to be matched with a surrogate that does not live in a state with a full or partial abortion ban.

00:18:09.250 --> 00:18:24.855
So they're nervous that if something were to go wrong, even if they've tested their embryos genetically, that like let's say nothing's a hundred percent, if, if you know, the fetus could have like a life-threatening abnormality, they wanted to know that that's something that they have access to.

00:18:24.855 --> 00:18:44.442
And more and more recently, like I would say within the last two months really, I feel like I've been hearing more and more people come to me and say I don't want to be matched with somebody that lives in Texas or Alabama and there's like a laundry list of states now that you know fall into that sort of umbrella that people are feeling nervous to pursue surrogacy.

00:18:44.442 --> 00:18:46.800
But it's not because surrogacy is not legal.

00:18:46.800 --> 00:18:57.198
They're nervous if something were to be wrong with the surrogate or something, if her life was in jeopardy or something was threatening her or the baby that they want to be able to make those difficult decisions.

00:18:57.818 --> 00:18:59.143
Yeah, that makes absolute sense.

00:18:59.143 --> 00:19:11.160
Yeah, I mean we've seen, you know just the devastation to women in those states and we obviously follow that news cycle closely, so we know, especially in Texas, right, I mean they've seen some really horrible things down there from the abortion bans.

00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:13.376
Yeah such a valid concern.

00:19:13.376 --> 00:19:22.785
So, for those people who are concerned about the politics around IVF and surrogacy, what are some steps that they can take now to protect themselves or their embryos?

00:19:22.785 --> 00:19:28.282
And are you recommending anything to your clients, maybe some free advice, if you will?

00:19:28.644 --> 00:19:29.369
Yes, always.

00:19:29.369 --> 00:19:34.342
I would say just really staying informed, having conversations with their fertility clinics.

00:19:34.342 --> 00:19:48.759
Fertility clinics, perhaps, if they think things are looking a little dicey in their state, maybe shipping their embryos to a state where they might not have anything to worry about when it comes to embryo donation, or they could always donate, or discard?

00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:54.056
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and we have a friend who has looked into all those options too.

00:19:54.056 --> 00:19:58.977
Yes, so, overall, before we start to wrap up, we're going to ask just a few more here.

00:19:58.977 --> 00:20:03.821
Are you optimistic just about the state of IVF and surrogacy with everything going on in the country?

00:20:04.569 --> 00:20:06.714
I'm cautiously optimistic.

00:20:06.714 --> 00:20:14.496
I feel like you know it's a nerve wracking time right now, but I I I'm feeling hopeful.

00:20:15.037 --> 00:20:15.617
I like that answer.

00:20:15.617 --> 00:20:18.262
We always lean on the optimistic side too, feeling hopeful.

00:20:18.282 --> 00:20:19.625
I like that answer.

00:20:19.625 --> 00:20:20.626
We always lean on the optimistic side too.

00:20:20.626 --> 00:20:25.191
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:20:25.191 --> 00:20:28.662
And there's been, we've been giving, we've been given little glimmers of hope, the last few weeks in particular.

00:20:28.662 --> 00:20:29.324
So I'm optimistic as well.

00:20:29.324 --> 00:20:34.778
Yeah, so what are some ways our listeners can get involved to help ensure IVF and surrogacy are protected?

00:20:35.298 --> 00:20:41.317
I would suggest calling their reps and their senators and paying attention to where political parties stand on these issues.

00:20:41.857 --> 00:20:42.859
Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:42.859 --> 00:20:48.847
I mean, we always tell everyone, right, like those phone calls, those letters, those matter, your reps do listen.

00:20:48.847 --> 00:20:50.211
You can make a difference that way.

00:20:50.211 --> 00:20:53.019
Yeah, just be informed on who you're voting for.

00:20:53.019 --> 00:20:59.162
Vote for people who support reproductive health and reproductive rights, including IVF access, for sure.

00:20:59.162 --> 00:21:01.896
Okay, we're going to wrap with this.

00:21:01.896 --> 00:21:06.980
If our listeners want to get in touch, jessie, or just follow along with all you're doing, where can they find?

00:21:07.019 --> 00:21:07.119
you.

00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.996
They can find me on Instagram, surrogacy Simplified.

00:21:10.996 --> 00:21:42.016
I definitely post a lot of free resources and valuable information on there, so I would definitely suggest that they can also book a complimentary initial consult with me on my website and my website is surrogacy simplifiedcom, and this summer I actually launched a community is for intended parents and it's intentionally off social media because I know sometimes the pregnancy announcements and just even all the summer vacations or back to school pictures, depending on when this airs, it can be very triggering.

00:21:42.016 --> 00:21:51.776
So this is it's on an app called School and it's really nice because it has a news feed where people can connect and ask questions, similar to what a Facebook news feed would look like.

00:21:51.776 --> 00:22:02.114
But it also has a classroom where I can post resources for them and give them different guidance, which I really, really like, and if anybody's interested in that, they can send.

00:22:02.114 --> 00:22:12.461
It would be hard to list out the link, so just you can message me on Instagram or my email is my name, which is jessie J-E-S-S-I-E at surrogacysimplifiedcom.

00:22:13.069 --> 00:22:17.614
Yeah, and we will put all your links in the show notes too, so folks want to go there and grab whatever they want.

00:22:17.953 --> 00:22:20.557
I think I love that classroom idea.

00:22:20.557 --> 00:22:28.844
I want that just to like see what my friends are up to even though I know that's what social media is but I want to like take away the toxic part.

00:22:28.844 --> 00:22:32.747
You know, it sounds like that's exactly what that does, so that's great.

00:22:33.067 --> 00:22:33.607
There's a.

00:22:33.607 --> 00:22:37.653
There's a lot of really great surrogacy Facebook groups and they are a double-edged sword.

00:22:37.653 --> 00:22:44.122
They're really, really fantastic because they have like thousands and thousands of people, so you can get an answer from a wide range of people.

00:22:44.122 --> 00:22:53.992
The drawback, I would say, is that sometimes there's one of my friends, coined keyboard warriors that people like get really spicy, so it can be intimidating to ask questions.

00:22:53.992 --> 00:22:57.176
So that's why I like having something off social media.

00:22:57.176 --> 00:23:01.561
But yes, in the same vein, there's also a lot of value to the Facebook groups too.

00:23:01.863 --> 00:23:03.744
Yeah absolutely Well.

00:23:03.744 --> 00:23:04.365
I think that's it.

00:23:04.365 --> 00:23:09.171
Thank you so much, jessie.

00:23:09.171 --> 00:23:09.631
I know I learned a lot.

00:23:09.631 --> 00:23:14.417
I know our listeners will and just appreciate all your work you do, because I know you know that could be such a trying time for families, and so the fact that you're there to help, I think that's so great.

00:23:14.637 --> 00:23:15.199
Thank you.

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:16.441
Yes, absolutely.

00:23:16.441 --> 00:23:17.863
Thank you so much for being here.

00:23:17.863 --> 00:23:22.698
Like Ashley said, I learned a ton and, yes, absolutely admire you and what you do.

00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:24.854
Thank you, and I love what you guys are doing too.

00:23:24.854 --> 00:23:25.757
It's really incredible.

00:23:26.318 --> 00:23:28.875
Thank you, and I'll just wrap us up.

00:23:28.875 --> 00:23:30.917
So thank you, guys, everyone, for tuning in this week.

00:23:30.917 --> 00:23:35.121
Like I said, we'll drop Jesse's information in the show notes if you want it, and we'll catch you next week.

00:23:43.106 --> 00:23:44.928
Thanks for joining us for today's episode.

00:23:44.928 --> 00:23:46.497
We really appreciate the support.

00:23:47.192 --> 00:23:51.959
We would also really appreciate it if you hit the follow button and share this episode with anyone you think would enjoy it.

00:23:52.451 --> 00:23:55.215
And we'd like to thank Kevin Tanner, who edited this episode.

00:23:55.215 --> 00:24:00.496
If you're interested in learning more about him and his services, his website and Instagram are in the show notes.

00:24:00.977 --> 00:24:02.181
With that, we'll see you next week.